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Hosts Stacey Harris and John Sumser discuss important news and topics in recruiting and HR technology. Listen live every Thursday or catch up on full episodes with transcriptions here.

HR Tech Weekly

Episode: 245
Air Date: December 12, 2019





Important: Our transcripts at HRExaminer are AI-powered (and fairly accurate) but there are still instances where the robots get confused (or extremely confused) and make errors. Please expect some inaccuracies as you read through the text of this conversation and let us know if you find something wrong and we’ll get it fixed right away. Thank you for your understanding.

John Sumser
Stacey Harris


John Sumser 0:14
Good morning! Welcome to HR Tech Weekly, one step closer with Stacey Harris and John Sumser. How are you Stacey?

Stacey Harris 0:21
I’m doing well John, I’m doing well. We are sitting in, well at least I’m sitting in North Carolina. It’s a bit chilly. We’re at 34 degrees which is a little bit chilly for North Carolina but the sun is shining and I can’t complain. And how about you? Are you home this week?

John Sumser 0:36
I have been indoctrinated into Texas culture. I’m now officially 5% Texan.

Stacey Harris 0:43
The real question is did you buy some cowboy boots, John?

John Sumser 0:45
Well, we walked around the stockyards, which is Old Town Fort Worth, and there was a place where you can buy a pair of boots for a thousand bucks, and eight months after they figured out what size and where they would send you the boots. But, but in lieu of a new pair of boots I had a great big plate full of chicken fried steak.

Stacey Harris 1:06
There you go. That’s the other half of what you get out there you go.

John Sumser 1:10
Yeah, I never had chicken fried steak before. I can tell you it’s surprising to be that there are any adults over 50 in Texas because the diet seems to be largely our artery clogging stuff.

Stacey Harris 1:25
Yeah, very good artery clogging stuff but yes, yeah chicken fried – yeah I used to work in restaurant that served chicken fried steak. It was it was the original restaurant was from the Texas area and then it had franchised and it was it’s an experience to have chicken fried steak. Everyone should have it once in their life at least.

John Sumser 1:42
This place we have chicken fried steak was supposed to be the chicken fried steak mothership and so when you got the menu, all that was on the menu were 10 different ways you could have chicken fried steak. Really.

Stacey Harris 1:56
Well. You experienced Texas then.

John Sumser 1:58
Really. Yeah, the question wasn’t, are you gonna have chicken fried steak? The question was what other things are you going to have on top of your chicken fried steak?

Stacey Harris 2:09
Exactly. Cuz there are a plethora of sauces and gravies and hot sauces and three sauces and gas that can go with a chicken fried steak when it’s done well.

John Sumser 2:18
Yeah, yeah, I didn’t order this but but the fellow who was sitting next to me at this dinner, ordered one that had an egg on top of it, and the egg was first poached` and then fried. And so while you know couldn’t fit on the thing if it wasn’t fried. It was fascinating because I’d never seen anything like it, it’s perhaps why – oh, oh, and then this was this was Fort Worth. So in the stockyards in Fort Worth, they have a daily parade, they don’t call it a parade. They call it the cattle Stampede, I think, of Longhorn Longhorn cows.

Stacey Harris 3:02
Well, I bet you that was a site! Yes. And very dangerous they can be. Yeah, you stay out of their way.

John Sumser 3:10
Yup. So what’s in the mailbag? Oh, one other thing. Do you know that the last full moon of the decade is today? This morning at 12:12am, so the last full moon of the decade was on December 12th at 12:12am or 1212 / 1212.

Stacey Harris 3:30
Wow, isn’t that interesting?

John Sumser 3:34

Stacey Harris 3:36
There’s some cosmic connection there, I’m sure but none of us probably are aware of it. But it completely makes sense. And I was out last night and I did see the moon as it was getting ready to hit the final – it was an amazing moon last night, I will have to say one of those mystical beautiful things that just hang there and you especially at the end of the year that you just sort of know that it has its own sort of aura about it. There’s there’s something magical going on underneath this moon and that’s definitely the moon I saw last night. So tonight might be a nice night out.

John Sumser 4:03
We have, we’re going to have to talk some next week about our end of the year show. Because it’s not just the end of the year, it’s the end of the decade.

Stacey Harris 4:13
Oh, wow, that’ll be, that should be interesting for us to talk about because I think this decade, particularly in the HR technology space has been a wild one, definitely a wild one. There have been not only, you know, in the broader technology sense, but in the HR technology sense, we’ve completely remapped how we think about work in the last 10 years, right?

John Sumser 4:33
You know, I think that’s true of people who think about stuff like that. I’m not sure that’s true about how work goes. So that’s an interesting thing to try to pick apart. I’m increasingly interested in understanding the difference between how analysts see the world and what’s actually going on, you know, and we act like the new shiny toys everybody gets the brand new shiny toys every year for Christmas. But the truth is people hang on to their HR systems for more than a decade. And so, so while we see the changes, it’s interesting, and you are the actual world’s expert on the question of how has it changed. Did you know that?

Stacey Harris 5:16
Well, I’ve being called an expert, I think is always a humbling thing. But I will say that I can tell you on average, most people keep their payroll solutions for 11 years. So you are correct. 11, somewhere in more than half the organizations that are listening to us, they have probably had a CORE HRMS service and a payroll system, and possibly even a time management clock system that has been in place for longer than a decade. Right. So yeah, a very true statement that you’re saying.

John Sumser 5:43
Yeah, yeah. And why would you change that stuff out if you didn’t have to? Right. And so the actual market moves a lot slower than the people at the front end of the market. That’s the interesting thing and trying to figure out how to express that is I think that’s part of a project you’re working on isn’t it? The book?

Stacey Harris 6:01
It is. Yeah. So I’m in the middle of writing a book about the HR technology environment, what it looks like and how people make sense of it for their organizations and their environment. And yeah, a lot of the conversation is about the fact that the emerging technologies are not the ones that most organizations are working with every day inside their company, right, that we love to talk about them, they are important to be aware of, they’re important to understand in the new direction that we’re heading, but so much of what organizations are dealing with are decades old technology, and you have to also understand that as well. And you also have to understand what your business is trying to achieve to make decisions about your HR technology. So yeah, that’s that’s the heart of the book that I’m writing.

John Sumser 6:41
Yeah, well, so you might want to talk to the folks at iCIMS. I had a very interesting time at iCIMS a couple of weeks ago, and they’re kind of technology spent a long time talking about the fact that they don’t want to be a technology company. They want to be a customer value, first company and they’re happy to let other people invent new stuff, and it’s the first time I’ve heard somebody in the tech space, say something like that. But I think it’s kind of a, it’s a reassuring story to tell when so much is changing so fast that your vendor is going to take care of you and insulate you from the new stuff rather than very winter. Yeah. And meanwhile, must listen to people we do are busy trying to catch the latest wave.

Stacey Harris 7:29
Yeah, we were just talking about how powerful the idea of simplification is, right. And simplification may be the wrong term based off of what we’re talking about. But you know, your idea of installation and giving us breathing space so that we can do our work and do the jobs where we need to get done versus being constant technology educators and learner’s, that’s a powerful place for some organizations to fit right in. Right.

John Sumser 7:53
Yeah, and I think you know, the stuff about experience, I don’t know if you notice this, but Nobody talks about engagement. Anyone everybody talks about experience. And from what I can tell experience means the software is too complicated. So we’re going to whittle it down to what you actually paid.

Stacey Harris 8:15
I’m not completely sure the exact definition but I will say it is definitely in the right ballpark, maybe.

John Sumser 8:21
Yeah, well, Joe, you lay a template over the existing software infrastructure and limit choice to the things that matter. And that creates that creates a persona based experience. Well, that’s a form of simplification. Yeah. And the problem is that the array of things that you can do with HR technology are vast, you know, in my in my standard torian case, into the industry, I start with a chart that says 75 discrete silos of HR technology. And when I brief that slide, I go, you know, there’s 75 silos of HR technology and The slides because that’s how I could fit on the slide, the real number is close to closer to 140, or hundred 50 discrete pieces of functionality that one assembles into a universe of maybe 30 to make a specific company do what it wants to do. But because companies are so different, you’ve got this array of ingredients that you can use, and you only use some of the ingredients some of the time in your particular company.

Stacey Harris 9:29
And I would agree with you, I think the challenge for a lot of HR and HR technologists right now, and this is part of why I started writing the book, because there’s a lot of good books out there about technology in and of itself, but I think most of them look at individual areas, right? They don’t look at the whole picture and to do really good simplification to do really good personalization. You have to know what all of those discrete features and functionality do understand how they interact and see each other and be able to identify The data that is most relevant to an employee at that one point in time and their work environment at that one point in day and at one point in their personal lives, right. And that takes a really sophisticated cook, right? We were in discussion about spice racks, right? The best cooks in the world use the least amount of ingredients, but they know exactly what ingredients you need. You have to know a lot about everything to do that. That’s how I see the next generation of HR technologists, nature professionals, they have to understand all the things that are in this market and be able to tailor them very precisely, or the technology will have to do that for them. And I’m not sure the answers there is to do that yet.

John Sumser 10:40
Yeah, I can’t imagine a technology that does this. I think that’s a lofty goal. You could get that you could get an automatic configurator for an HR technology suite. But sort of by definition, the HR technology suite is going to be only able to deliver partial solutions across All of the silos the idea that you could have an automatic configurator for all of HR tech everywhere. That’s ambitious. And I can imagine who paid for problems, right? But the practicality is, who cares? Nobody but that one company in that one role in that one area. Right? Exactly, exactly. And so that means that the role of interloper HR consultant slash Guru is probably not in jeopardy of being automated.

Stacey Harris 11:32
But I will have to agree with that one will agree on that particular area, clean this up, I think that you’re talking about, which is that there is no standard starting point. You know, and I’ve been thinking a lot about this because of the book recently. I do think there are some elements that are the base across organizations, but I think it’s the next step of what you’re doing that organizations have to really think about personalizing for their individual companies. Right.

John Sumser 11:57
So what do you think the basic set looks like?

Stacey Harris 11:59
Well, I think they pull us and one of the things you have to do for people in your organization, so the basic managerial tasks that happen inside your organization right now, at least, you know, everybody has to pay employees keep data about employees, everybody has to manage time within their organization, they have to manage challenge within their organization. And they have to do some reporting on their employees, and they have to do some sort of planning, right? those categories have to have something that is generally helps you do those things. So that’s that’s how at least I’m categorizing them as around the managerial areas that HR has to be held accountable to.

John Sumser 12:33
Those are good categories. But once you get inside of the it’s the way it’s almost like a box where you have those categories that one side, and then you have industry regions size capital infrastructure across the top because whether or not the benefits infrastructure is self finance, if it’s a self insuring company that matters whether or not the workforce is fundamentally hourly or salary matters. Whether Or not safety is the primary issue in the business or creativity is the primary issue the businesses matters, right? And so it’s a it’s a complicated grid that’s like five rows down and five rows across. And each one of those intersections on the bingo chart ends up with a different expression or think

Stacey Harris 13:21
it would be interesting to map those out. I think you’ve just given us a new research project. Just say if you have this and you have this, what today’s world look like right? You know, one of the things is there’s there’s a lot of stuff that will probably want to get to today that’s in the news. But I think part of the big things that we’re hearing in the news right now is the idea of how the HR technology businesses are repositioning themselves which is what you mentioned with isin there is a big conversation happening about are we hrms company and the RP company and payroll company, you know, are we an innovative company are we a people focus company area, customer focus customer company definitions The name is means something and they have an impact on how people see you and help people, you know, work within your company. So the way we figure out how to label this stuff is important, but we can’t use the label as a box that holds people and we have to use the labels as a starting point and then sort of move out from there. I think that the the changing maybe shift that we’re seeing to the next century.

John Sumser 14:20
Okay, so what’s in the mailbag?

Stacey Harris 14:22
Well, it’s a busy couple of weeks considering that we’re in the midst of what at least here in the United States would be considered a pretty heavy holiday season. We just got back from what is our Thanksgiving here and other regions are also doing various holiday but we do get a couple of acquisitions this week. We got degreed acquiring a demo that’s probably the most notable one a demo is a total talent network as they call themselves but but more like a not quite talent management or like a career goals application. I’ve seen them once before. They’re a little bit like field 50 that kind of a tool technology as well career and talent planning. And so that was a pretty big purchase by degree because it puts them in a little bit different place than they they Then that previously, we also saw this week, any HR, you may not know them, they’ve only been around for a few years, but they just acquired a payroll HR solution. And of course, they use the language, which means we get to talk about them a little bit longer to become the first true all in one HR solution. So we’ll we’ll talk a little bit that are bad and maybe your hardware market, they need to hire a marketing person, she’s got some interesting news here, we should really spend a little bit time if not this week, next, week on Paycom, those who who sort of poopoo them and say, oh, they’re just SMB, Paycom announced that they are enhancing their new learning management system. I don’t know enough about that particularly to say whether or not that is something they bought or they are partnering with. But there’s some interesting conversation there because the same time as they come and making announcements about that they announced a couple weeks ago, ask HR and direct data exchange as well for their new product. Their stock jumped 30% in November, and so at the same time, and some of these announcements are coming out, I was getting calls from very Financial Analyst about my thoughts on paycom. And so I think it would be worth having conversation they’re working also announced some changes, not during announcement. But again, if you watch those financial analysts to track some of the stuff, they rearranged some of their product development leaders. So some names, we know Chief Product Officer truster Metsys is now the new role of ebp of emerging technology and Chakraborty. And I apologize for messing up your last name because I’m terrible. And I’m is promoted to the VP of technology. And Peter schlump is promoted to the VP of product development. So some announcements made their be worth maybe talking about some money being invested into Mingo, a European workforce management application and then if we had time I don’t know that we’re going to get the time today but LinkedIn put out their 2020 emerging jobs report we got the top Glassdoor put out their top technology companies to work for and many HR organizations are on there and some notable ones are not this year and Facebook rebuffed bar Our government rebuffed them saying that they were not going to allow messaging encryption, which has an implication for HR that we may not be thinking about. And last but not least 10% of meetings workers book are fake john 10 tracking tools are starting to let companies know where their employees are at. And they’re starting to do something with that. Not sure that I would appreciate that kind of information in front of managers that were getting it there. So lots of places to talk about where would you like to jump in John?

John Sumser 17:29
Well, let’s just take it from the top and start with the Degreed acquiring Adepto, so Degreed is now going to be some combination of an Identity Service and a job board. Is that right?

Stacey Harris 17:43
And sort of a talent planning career management company. Yes, I (unintelligible) founded in 2013. Group A rapidly had gotten a lot of large organizations like Cisco and Atmos working with them and they’re focusing on talent and career development is your Really what they’re supposed to be focusing on, and now degree to sort of picking them up to go along with their, what they call learning experience platform, but which is basically a tool that helps you figure out what learning elements work best for you, and what type of content will fit the direction you want to go as a learner. So these two things do sort of fit together. But it’s interesting that they purchased your organization to do this versus of developing this out a little bit more now in product. So…

John Sumser 18:25
I read that as, Degreed hit a cul-de-sac, and they needed to find new meaning in life. This is a six or seven year old company Adepto, and they create relevance for the Degreed the idea which was pretty theoretical. So so that’s interesting. And it looks like in the press release, the CEO is quoted the chief experience officer as chief experience officer. That’s it. It’s quoted, but I don’t see the guy who founded degree being quoted in the So, so that’s an interesting thing to

Stacey Harris 19:03
Well, I think, you know, we are starting to see the green thinking a little bit more broadly about how it becomes a business more than more than idea, which is exactly I think what you were talking about and to do that, then I think, you know, that’s, you know, their new CEO Chris McCarthy. That’s a part of that conversation, right? Yep.

John Sumser 19:20
So let’s move on and talk about EddyHR the new first true all-in-one HR solution.

Stacey Harris 19:27
So I had to go look up I was like, uh, when did EddyHR start so EddyHR came out in like 2017. I love that they have a little story on their on their, I will be honest, I have not seen any HR yet. screen grabs, they show all look interesting. As you know, new technology always does. They’ve got this great little thing where they show they can make recommendations about employees, they’re hiring, or they they’re talking about hiring with emojis. So they’ve got our whole emoji tool inside of it, which I thought was that you know, made me smile a bit but they just pulled themselves together in 2017 started out as most of these organizations do because the founders you We’re working in the tech industry found out how hard it was to hire people and run the HR function. So they felt they needed to improve on it pulled together the best team they could possibly put together, which was five, you know, male engineers, obviously in a very female dominated industry and then launched what is EddyHR. And then it looks like they are now after getting into applicant tracking system, getting into job requirements. Moving into a little bit of talent management hit the core HRMS hit the area of payroll and realize how hard it might be. So they acquired a payroll system as most of these organizations today. Since 2017 they’ve been building out this application and now without performance management without time and attendance, they feel like they are the most complete HR technology in the market, right? Only one HR solution. Sorry, I’m it was that line…

John Sumser 20:53
Yeah. yeah well you know. I don’t want to be too hard on them. But differentiation is important in the marketplace and claiming to be what everybody else claims to be years after they started claiming it doesn’t help a business grow. But let’s move on to pick up.

Stacey Harris 21:10
Now Paycom now this is one that probably could actually make some of that statement and very subtle and very quiet about how they’re growing Paycom went public in 2014. And they went from 150 million dollar organization to a $566 million organization with stock that just steadily grew but had not grown rapidly in the last couple of quarters. And so they announced that they were launching a new learning management system as part of their they had had some elements of talent management but have been pretty light previously, but they launched a much broader LMS component within their their software that will do for their audience, which is mid SMB. Basically all of their 23,000 clients are smaller than 1000 employees. They basically have created a content creation and change management tool and onboarding tool and a learning sort of recommendation tool which I was pretty surprised These are some pretty pretty sophisticated things were an SMB market payroll solution, which has continued to expand every year, just quietly and not making a lot of fuss in the market. So I would recommend watching them. That’s my thing on it.

John Sumser 22:18
Yup, they’re amazing, I think so let’s keep our eye on them. And who’s next in the queue? Paycom we go to Workday is shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Stacey Harris 22:28
Titanic is a little harsh. I actually think that this is a good thing. I think they needed to expand what they’re doing in their product area. So they are revealing their Chief Product officer Petros is going to assume the new role of ebp of emerging technology. So that is shifting a little bit and then you’re going to see Diane who will be promoted to a VP of technology and Peter schlump, who came from the data analytics side of things will now be the new VP of product development overall. So there will be brought what they’re doing, I’m assuming will also be a lot more being added to their product development teams as well. The to plan and Peter will have will leave the product and technology organization taking on many of Petros his previous responsibilities. So I don’t know. I mean, I think this is a good thing for them. But what do you what do you think, john?

John Sumser 23:16
Well, so I wish I understood. It’s interesting, I spent a lot of time listening to Workday, tell me about itself. And I still don’t understand how the interior organization operates. And so the best way that you could read this, and finally, is that tetras is off to run their r&d laboratories, and that they’re betting the future on him. And the duo of cyan and Peter are moving into taking take over his job. So it’s one person leaves and it requires two people to take the work. But the other way that you could read it is you promote up if you don’t want to admit failure in public, and so it’s not clear which of those things is happening here. I will tell you that a work day and managed to retain the sort of mystery about how they operate inside the shop itself. And that’s, I think, starting to hurt them, you know, they’re suffering, sort of post honeymoon, reputation damage these days as they go through the growing pains of fully realizing their role as an enterprise software provider. So a lot of what they’re dealing with are symptoms of success, but it requires deep cultural change to make the transition that they’re faced in the marketplace. And so, so maybe this is part of that. And I’m not positive about how to read it, but I wouldn’t necessarily read it as a rosey thing.

Stacey Harris 24:39
For me and from where I’m sitting, and I understand your perspective on it. And I do think there are a lot of conversations to be had about sort of the direction that Workday is heading both in their product development, but also as a cultural conversation. But my sense is, is that as organizations grow and and change and we’re seeing an organization that has noted that it’s been very successful. is hit some walls, they have to rethink sort of how they position the various roles within the organization and understanding a little bit more about the base as a whole. I think it’ll be interesting to see how cyan and Peter shift the thinking a little bit. Peter definitely comes from an analytics background, which is a big part of I think of the positioning that we saw at the work day rising events is that there will be at the heart of where we’re seeing the market head for work day. And so it’ll be interesting to see if they’re able to sort of wrap all of that together. So yeah…

John Sumser 25:31
Yeah. Well, you know, I like the idea that Workday is more fully embracing analytics at the heart of its HR functionality that’s powerfully important that’s powerfully important and could be a way in which they become a market leader, again.

Stacey Harris 25:50
I think we’re seeing a lot of organizations focus on analytics, but if you make it Central, versus everything is a module and so that’s just another module to go along with. I think those are the big conversations that we’re hearing in the market is analytics, how we run our business? Or is it just a way that we don’t sort of think about the data and just analyze the data and report on it? And I think there’s two foster on that in the market will be interesting to see which one takes the leadership role?

John Sumser 26:16
Yep. Okay, so we got time for one more, which one do you want to do?

Stacey Harris 26:21
One more? Well, I think that if we’re going to talk about one more topic, I really want to hit this 10% of meetings workers book are fake. There’s a disconnect about LinkedIn, job rating Glassdoor did their thing. Those are interesting, but a lot of people have been talking about those. But I was blown away by this is just a little research study done by a company called synergy sky. synergy sky is a meeting technology provider that basically tracks everybody’s meeting and what rooms they’re using and whether or not the employees are actually in those rooms once they scheduled them, and it revealed that 10% of workers are regularly booking safe meetings into the diary. Keep colleagues thinking at least this is their perception of that keep colleagues thinking they are busier than they really are. And then the whole story goes on to talk about how employees are wasting time. And maybe they’re off at the coffee shop. And you know, if they’re at all these fake meetings, what are 30% of them doing with them and why? And some of them are multiple people. I was blown away by this conversation. And this came out of a UK based magazine, it was in the European market where they were having these conversations, but this is the worst fear and the worst use case of technology. But we’re seeing it

John Sumser 27:37
Hang on, this idea that there’s something wrong with booking time on your calendar and calling it a meeting so that you can actually get work done is a problem.

Stacey Harris 27:48

John Sumser 27:49
That’s, you know, so we’re talking about somebody earlier the conversation who needed the marketing department. These people marketing department need need a lesson in having a conscience Jesus You know, the trend to emphasize collaboration has resulted in, you know, I know people in companies where if you don’t have six conference calls, hour long conference calls on your calendar every day you’re not working. And in an environment like that, you’ve got to be able to protect yourself somehow. Right. And so the idea is that because people aren’t using the software, the way that the vendor thinks the software should be used, that those people are stealing, right, that’s what this is saying. That’s synergy sky out of the podcast. I hope they’re publicly traded. I hope the stock price falls because this is the key. Yeah, sometimes to defend yourself, you have to book you know, so I published a public calendar on calendly. And the way that you manage the public calendar is you block off time on your calendar so that people can schedule it. That’s what you do. And rather than it being something bad, it’s probably Something that you want to encourage. And so calling it fake. It’s like, Oh, that’s a dog whistle, isn’t it?

Stacey Harris 29:05

John Sumser 29:06
So anyhow, I have a sort of a mild opinion about this one.

Stacey Harris 29:12
I will have to say it hit me on all the wrong levels as well. But you know, the last sentence of that said, our system synergy a thing does not actually flag this potentially suspicious behavior to account administrators due to privacy concerns some workers might have our systems are built to monitor efficient usage of business facilities and equipment. But the goal of allowing employers to better optimize extremely expensive real estate that is providing expressly for meetings, but at the end of the day, somebody has that aggregate data and managers have to make decisions about what to do with that aggregate data. Right. And that’s the scary part of this is if the companies who own the technology that’s tracking the information doesn’t understand how dangerous and what they’re saying could be wrong. How do we expect the manager who’s given that aggregate information to read that information in Get something valuable with it. That’s the really conversation here. What does management do with this data, even if it’s an aggregate level?

John Sumser 30:07
So I am getting pretty worked up these days about the fact that every HR department and every HR vendor needs a clear and coherent statement of ethics that covers issues just like this. The fact that nobody’s thinking about it right now is frightening. It’s frightening. And so there’s some hard work to be done thinking about the data that you have of what you’re going to use it for, and how you expect people to interact with the intelligence, the tweeting, embed systems, and it’s time to start working on the problem. It’s really time to start working on the problem. So thanks for calling this out. It’s been a great conversation.

Stacey Harris 30:48
Definitely. Very good conversation and we’ll be back next week and next week, we’ll give some updates on what our plans are for our New Year conversation that will be taking place on the first year.

John Sumser 30:57
It’ll be a black-tie only, end of the decade gala by invitation only. What do you say?

Stacey Harris 31:04
Sounds good to me. I’ll bring the champagne, you bring the party poppers, we’re gonna have a whole event John.

John Sumser 31:09
Okay. Thanks for doing this again, Stacey. And thanks everybody for listening in. You’ve been listening to HR Tech Weekly One Step Closer with Stacey Harris and John Sumser. See you next week. Bye bye now.

Stacey Harris 31:22
Thanks everyone.

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