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HRx Radio – Executive Conversations: On Friday mornings, John Sumser interviews key executives from around the industry. The conversation covers what makes the executive tick and what makes their company great.

HRx Radio – Executive Conversations

Guest: Kelly Robinson, Founder and CEO, RedDot Media
Episode: 376
Air Date: August 21, 2020

 

Transcript

 

Important: Our transcripts at HRExaminer are AI-powered (and fairly accurate) but there are still instances where the robots get confused and make errors. Please expect some inaccuracies as you read through the text of this conversation. Thank you for your understanding.

Full Transcript with timecode

 
 
[00:00:00] John Sumser: Good morning and welcome to HR Examiner’s Executive Conversations. I’m your host, John Sumser and today we’re going to be talking with Kelly Robinson, who is the international man of mystery behind a thousand recruitment and recruitment technology projects. Kelly, how are you?

 
 

[00:00:35] Kelly Robinson: Hey, good mornning. Is that the Avenger’s theme tune you used there at the intro music? You got me very pumped up this morning. How are you? Good morning!

 
 

[00:00:42] John Sumser: Yeah, I’m fantastic. So listen, take a moment and tell your story to the audience. You know, you’ve done some amazing things and I don’t think I could tell it as well as you can.

 
 

[00:00:51] Kelly Robinson: OK, cool. Well, good morning everybody. So I’m Kelly Robinson, as you can hear in my voice, I’m originally from London, England. I started out my career as a recruitment guy. I, made placements, I did the whole hiring thing, worked for agencies. Built them, run them. Transitioned to HR Tech founded and built a business called Broadbean, which ended up being the largestjob distribution company in the world.

 
 

[00:01:12] That brought me to the U S in 2009. And worked with that business, sold it to CareerBuilder had three amazing years with them. So that finished up around 2017. And then I turned agency guy. I am a recruitment person turned HR tech, turned ad agency. So, with a little tech thrown in, so I’m still in the jobs business, John.

 
 

[00:01:33] John Sumser: So tell me about your projects currently. What are you doing? What’s the agency business look like?

 
 

[00:01:39] Kelly Robinson: So, it’s been an interesting couple of years having come from the experience of working in the corporate sector and then starting a smaller company again, which, you know, to a certain extent started it out more as a sort of a consulting operation. You know, a couple of people would come to us and ask for some help in terms of actually making a change to the way they run their campaigns and, you know, the way they invest their dollars in terms of advertising.

 
 

[00:02:01] And that sort of grew pretty quickly actually. I mean, I don’t want to use the, “we’re one of the fastest growing companies,” because it’s got no evidence to back that up, but we literally started from a single conversation back in November and have grown pretty rapidly since then. Sorry, November 17, have grown pretty rapidly since then.

 
 

[00:02:16] And what we do is we help companies focus and accelerate sustainable recruitment marketing. We really take an independent view of everything they do, and start to measure and encourage and build strategy to make things more effective. So we’re an ad agency, but with probably little more consulting as well.

 
 

[00:02:34] John Sumser: That’s interesting. You know, I have nudged a couple of people your way, and all they have to say are amazing things about what it’s like to work with you. So, why don’t you give me an example or two of the kinds of things that you do.

 
 

[00:02:47] Kelly Robinson: Okay, well, by the way, thank you and keep nudging away. It’s appreciated. Some of the things that we do. One of the things I really like to do is work with companies that actually want to make a change. And let me bring that conversation to life a little bit. You’ve seen it on thousands of conversations that where companies talk about improving things like the candidate experience, improving tracking, understanding their ROI. And a lot of those are conversations and yet they still maintain buying their media in the same fashion, which is an annual review and buy things for 12 months. And I can talk a little bit more about that.

 
 

[00:03:17] What we’re looking for and what we’ve been successful is finding companies that actually want to make those changes.

 
 

[00:03:23] So we’ll start with, you know, let’s look at auditing their jobs. Where are their jobs? Where have they been syndicated to? Who’s representing their jobs? What does the apply path look like? Is somebody clicking on a job and going through five or six different loops to get to their actual application form? What is the application form? What is the experience truly like? And then, and here’s the really important part. How do we change it? And are they willing to make that change? And we really look for companies that genuinely want to make those changes. Because you know, it’s not rocket science, we’re not trying to do an Elon Musk and put the human race on Mars.

 
 

[00:03:52] We’re actually talking about making it a nicer experience for somebody to apply for a job. Making it simple. And so many people put the barriers up. So, we’re working with those companies that genuinely want to make a change. And for that, we have to sometimes ask compliance, take a back seat, and let us work our magic. And then we’ll come back in and reevaluate what we do.

 
 

[00:04:10] John Sumser: That’s so interesting. So, one of the questions that I have for you is the emphasis on candidate experience that you just laid out there. I wonder if that stays the emphasis when the economy’s turned down? Is it more important or less important to take care of candidates when there’s a bunch more of them?

 
 

[00:04:27] Kelly Robinson: I don’t think it changes. It’s important, regardless. Will the rest of the world feel that way? Probably not. You’ve seen the way the pendulum swings both ways, but I think they should be a key focal point for most businesses. You think about it, right? Looks at companies like Amazon. Incredibly successful, amazing business, and they focus on just making things easy.

 
 

[00:04:45] And yet you go to most job application processes and it’s not, it’s complicated. You know, we’re becoming a one-click culture. We want to look at something. We want to press a button to buy it yet when it comes to applying for a job or actually not even applying for a job, but figuring out if you’re actually, you know, you’ve got the right experience or if you’re actually interested in working for that company, it’s actually quite hard to do.

 
 

[00:05:05] And we want to make a difference. We want to work with companies that actually want to make those changes.

 
 

[00:05:08] John Sumser: Got it. So there’s a lot of stuff going on in recruitment technology, a lot of intelligent tools, automated interfaces for people. Are you touching that stuff? And what did you think about all of those chat bots, and automated matching tools?

 
 

[00:05:25] Kelly Robinson: I mean, it’s a big compensation, right? So inevitably the technology is going to make an impact in our industry. We’ve never been the fastest industry to adopt these types of new technology. And I think probably because we don’t have the budgets in our locations to invest at a sort of level, the other parts of the businesses do.

 
 

[00:05:41] I think that the concept of getting that immediate interaction with a company through some sort of chat bot is going to be commonplace. And I think it’s long overdue, but I don’t think he’s ready to replace people yet. I think what happens is technology does some of the more predictable, repeatable tasks, which actually allow people, the people in TA Tech, to spend their time having conversations with people and explaining why they should quit their job and come to work for that company.

 
 

[00:06:05] The problem you’ve got at the moment, I mean, if you think about the typical customer for my company or a, you know, Broadbean or an Equest, is that TA recruiter talent executive person who is probably got 30 or 40 reqs, is seeing hundreds of people applying for the job, and physically doesn’t have the time to reach out and communicate and talk to everybody.

 
 

[00:06:25] And so I think technology could help with a bunch of that. Technology can start those initial conversations. Maybe hand the conversations off when they’re ready for a person to take over. I think he can walk people through the early stages of the process and if we can free up their time, then they can concentrate on what we need people for, which is actually having those real conversations when somebody is a match or with somebody who’s genuinely interested. And then to put the two together.

 
 

[00:06:48] I’m going to fire the question back at you actually, cause you know, you spend a lot of time looking at and talking to people about these businesses. What’s your view on, on the whole technology, AI automation piece coming into our industry?

 
 

[00:07:00] John Sumser: I think the technology itself is almost too primitive to use. There’s a lot of hype, there are a lot of people trying a lot of things. But one of the things that you notice very, very quickly is that recruiting has been able to be detached from the rest of the HR tech suite. And so you end up with recruiting chatbots that give different answers to candidates than the internal chatbot gives to employees.

 
 

[00:07:28] You end up with real trouble because. It turns out that years and years of SharePoint documents and a thousand other schemes for making access to information better has cluttered up hard drives with conflicting policies. And so many places, if you go ask a simple question, you get five different answers that don’t agree with each other.

 
 

[00:07:55] Most of the chatbot providers don’t ever address that problem. And so you end up solving a recruiting problem in creating a systems integration nightmare. And we’re seeing that a lot in the recruiting chatbots space. There are companies who are trying to tackle the entire thing, but that means that they have to get clear, clean answers to about 10,000 questions that people ask at HR before they could have the capacity to shift those answers off candidates.

 
 

[00:08:25] It’s a big job because people have been neglecting their data for years, right? I’m sure you see this. I’m sure you see this all over the place that the real problem tends to be a data cleanup problem. And those projects, the projects where you have to get the client to clean up their data are just as unpleasant as they can be because Sally over in the engineering recruiting section has a way of doing things and a way of describing things that Sammy over in the operations recruiting section doesn’t use and the old ATS has allowed them to have different names for all of those fields and because they have different names for all those fields you can’t put all of the data together. And so I’m seeing a lot of projects emerge that are interesting, that are about technical solutions to that data problem.

 
 

[00:09:18] So that’s what I see. Anyhow.

 
 

[00:09:20] Kelly Robinson: I appreciate that. For me, I think we’re going to see it creep into the repetitive tasks that can free up people’s time. I think AI and some of the technology out there can make a big impact in that space. And going back to the recruitment person with Rex and trying to handle a bunch of different line managers and things going on in their company.

 
 

[00:09:39] To shift their experience from being an order process to actually gauge in and yeah. Courage and people to work for that company, I think will be a good shift. And if we could use technology to free up the time for them to do that, then fantastic. Is it ready for mainstream yet? I’ve seen some amazing software, but ready for mainstream to be your frontline.

 
 

[00:09:58] I’m not so sure just yet, but certainly parts of it. I also think this current period is going to shake out a lot of the overvaluation cause there’s a lot of companies carrying huge valuations in this space. And I’m not sure if we’re going to see that be realized, but that’s a, it’s just a personal opinion.

 
 

[00:10:12] No, I think you’re right. The world has changed and we’ve gone from overnight. We went from Kim that shortage to a candidate surplus. And I dunno how you think those are going to go over the next six months. But I imagine that the employment situation is going to get worse. Biologics, as soon as the stimulus money runs out, then the crash will happen.

 
 

[00:10:34] And that’s going to change things because you know what happens in a downturn, you’d go from a world that has a million working recruiters to a world that has 200,000. Now in that world, you need the kind of automation that you’re talking about. Yeah, it’s possible. Everybody who’s in that outlook environment knows how to do scheduling and all of the stakeholders for the project, but what a pain in the neck to be the person when the machine can do it every bit as there’s no real reason to have a person doing scheduling, I saw somewhere that Microsoft spends $15 million a year scheduling recruitment appointments.

 
 

[00:11:23] You solve those little tiny problems that we solve enough of them. The one day you realize that a big chunk of it’s been automated and is running more effectively, you mentioned their COVID. And just to share a story on that, like when the split, when we first I’ve working from home, I’ve never been a work from home person.

 
 

[00:11:38] I’ve always worked in an office. I let a couple of things. One of the things that really struck me was I didn’t realize how much of my day and how much of my experiences of working were result of somebody walking in the office and saying, Hey, could you help me with this? I have this problem. I’d also, and they got eradicated.

 
 

[00:11:55] And I’ve actually had so much more time to do things and to build things that’d before. So whilst it’s been a really bizarre, I mean, I put 2020s the year that wasn’t right. So it’s been a really weird experience. There’s been some things that I think have been actually really educational, re eye opening.

 
 

[00:12:11] Like we’ve really embraced work from home and I’ll go say it was difficult for me for the first few months. Not having people demanding my time. It was almost like. I might not love

 
 

[00:12:25] of my personality. It was dependent on people coming in and be self in their problems. And it wasn’t, there was nobody asking me to solve their problems. So it’s been an interesting experience for me. The very beginning of this, I saw a tweet. I wish I’d kept it. There’s somebody posted this tweet back in.

 
 

[00:12:39] I want to say early March. And it said something actually struck a chord with me. They said when times are good, you sell. And when times are not so good, you build. And so for the last two months, three months, why she’s 45 months now we’ve been focusing on build it because I love what we do on the agency side.

 
 

[00:12:56] I really enjoy helping companies understand where they’re spending their money, taking them out of these longterm valuable contracts and bringing them into performance based advertising. I’m really helping make a difference. BA buildings until setting aside that working with a team of pager and building on what we’re doing with job splice has been really good, fun as well.

 
 

[00:13:15] So I think that hopefully there’ll be some interesting things that come out of this period for everybody.

 
 

[00:13:20] John Sumser: So you mentioned Pager, I don’t know very much about Pager. Tell me about that project.

 
 

[00:13:25] Kelly Robinson: Yeah so Pager, Darren is my partner in that. We launched the business about two years ago. Originally it came from the idea. So enough people said to me, if I see another recruiter post the link on LinkedIn, that just says I’m hiring for XYZ and a URL. I’m going to shoot him.

 
 

[00:13:42] And as we felt, well, actually we could be better than that. Right. We could probably make it a much more attractive proposition. And haven’t been in the job space for many years. We thought it was an interesting challenge. So initially we started off the builder system that allowed recruiters to socially share jobs, which morphed into content, which is eventually there.

 
 

[00:13:58] This bouncer path where the problem we solve for companies is when they have marketing teams and marketing people to create content very rarely get there South seems to organically. Yeah. And amplify that message because so many companies still see salads are a multiplier of phone calls. And let’s be honest.

 
 

[00:14:17] It’s not nowadays people still welded to the old ways of selling and content by selling engagement, by selling it is much more effective. So what our system does is it simply solves that problem. It helps marketing people engage with their sales teams. So we, you know, marketing, engage with our sales teams to share the content and that content generates leads.

 
 

[00:14:37] And we work in, in that space and it’s been incredibly fun journey we did because of my background. We launched in both the U S and the UK at the same time. So it was an interesting challenge. Yeah. The first year was really tough, but the business is starting to gain traction now where, you know, we’re being used by a bunch of the bigger, yeah.

 
 

[00:14:51] TSC, smart recruiters and jumped, fly people at bat. And they’re actually using that product to work with our sales teams to actually promote and to help them generate leads. So that’s been an interesting sort of diversion from just jobs, but it started with jobs.

 
 

[00:15:03] John Sumser: That’s great. And when you say agency, you know, I’ve been around long enough so that I tend to think that this great big, giant job board contracts, but what you’re really talking about, I think is job by job targeting and very explicit targeting.

 
 

[00:15:18] Isn’t that right?

 
 

[00:15:20] Kelly Robinson: So our typical customer is hiring a regular amount of people a month. And normally it will be 25 to 30 plus in some cases who’s hundreds and they want to centrally manage their campaign, but they want a company that’s going to independently look and review and do things like look at the content that’s being pushed out, you know, simple stuff.

 
 

[00:15:39] One of my biggest bugbears is actually what you see at job postings and what most companies want a job at best. They want a commercial reason why somebody should work for their organization and actually what you guys are job posting to your point. That’s a combination of a SharePoint document. A word document has been signed off years ago, and they’re all the same.

 
 

[00:15:55] They’re just vanilla and boring. And so we try and help people transition to Ryan as job ad managing that centrally managing their campaigns on a performance basis. So no more let’s buy 12 months contracts. Let’s sign up on a year. Let’s look at each month or each quarter and see which assets are working.

 
 

[00:16:13] And those are not. I dunno, some jumbles get there. It can be a friction with working with agencies. You know, when we first started this, I started reaching out to competition and say, look, you know, we’re a new agency. What can we do differently? How can we build a better relationship? Is it about the margin?

 
 

[00:16:26] Is it about lack of control? Could we be we’re open to, we allow yourself seems to be on the cause of the clients with us, but a lot of it comes down to, we are often call our business, this promised X and he’s not delivering X and we’ll go to them and we’ll say, look, this is what we’re paying for. We’re not getting it.

 
 

[00:16:40] And then all of a sudden the relationship with the agency sort of put under the microscope, but it’s really not. The agency is the lack of performance. I’m going off on a side journey then. Sorry, you caught me on my soap.

 
 

[00:16:51] John Sumser: That’s great. So one of the roles that you play as you act as an advocate for your clients, with the various job distribution operations of the various job publishing operations, to make sure that they’re giving bang for the buck, I’ve got to put in, should be part of the agency model, but the agency model used to be the agency person brought donuts and took orders.

 
 

[00:17:14] Right, you’re getting more activist than that.

 
 

[00:17:18] Kelly Robinson: Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think about it right. The way I saw this industry explode and I used to say has kind of three parts to it. The way people bought their contracts, they bought them on relationships like dinners and discounts. That was it. And the most Chinese man now people are looking at us and actually we don’t want to commit to a year.

 
 

[00:17:36] Let’s see if this works. So let’s look at the numbers, listen, literally dress and people always talking about Harry and evolving. I think when you look at job advertising, it’s almost the purest form of digital recruitment. You know, you give a few bucks to somebody and somebody turns up, but what’s the work for your organization?

 
 

[00:17:50] I mean, it couldn’t be more effective and more streamlined and simple as that. And all that’s happened is the way we buy that it’s changed from a, a single job posting to a yearly contract, to a per click. And in some cases or per candidate or qualified candidate, depending on who you’re working with. So I still think that the performance based advertising isn’t fully mainstream.

 
 

[00:18:09] There’s plenty of growth in that. And I believe that Mark is going to continue for a while. There’ll be some evolution for sure, but it’s really been, the evolution is the way we buy it. The advertising.

 
 

[00:18:18] John Sumser: So, I want to change the subject entirely. You moved to the States from London 12 years ago?

 
 

[00:18:27] Kelly Robinson: 2009,

 
 

[00:18:28] John Sumser:2009.

 
 

[00:18:30] What’s that been like? It’s been a tumultuous time in the country. What’s that been like for you?

 
 

[00:18:36] Kelly Robinson: Well, John, I am now an American and I can vote. Don’t ask me which direction I’m going in. We’re not going to talk about politics. But I can now vote. So, this is my home. We have come here and adopted this country, and this is now home for us.

 
 

[00:18:49] You know, like any move to a country, it takes a little while to adjust. It takes a little while to understand the differences and how things operate, but it’s been a phenomenal experience and we’ve loved every minute of it. The kids have grown up here from Zach. Yeah. My youngest moved here at the age of six or seven, actually.

 
 

[00:19:06] So, you know, to all intents and purposes, that’s the only home they’ve really known. I’m incredibly proud of him. He’s a young British kid that came here at the age of seven this week just enlisted in the army. So he’s going to be an infantry man off to Fort Benning to do his basic training. So I’m very proud of the fact that he’s, you know, he’s now serving he’s well, I’ll say adoptee countries not adopted country, but yeah, it’s been a fantastic experience for us.

 
 

[00:19:29] John Sumser: Wow. That’s an awesome story. I understand your oldest son is buying a house in Austin now.

 
 

[00:19:35] Kelly Robinson: Yes, he’s got a house in Austin. So, we’re going to have no kids at home.

 
 

[00:19:40] John Sumser: Oh, we should talk about that sometime. That’s kind of a crazy transition. So, do you have a clear picture of where you’re headed with all of these projects? It’s an interesting portfolio of things.

 
 

[00:19:50] And in general, what I would share about your work is that you are figuring out how to use digital technology to connect people, to get things done. That’s the heart of the work that I hear. Are you going to stay there or are you building more things? Are you going to grow horizontally or are you about to become the new Career Builder?

 
 

[00:20:10] Kelly Robinson: So we are, yes we’re building some software. One of the distinct advantages we’ve got is the conversations we’re having with our clients around jobs and campaigns lead us to look at friction in their processes. And one of the things I enjoy doing is building software to remove those. So we all started to add a small number of technical assets to our business.

 
 

[00:20:32] I think historically, when you look at agencies, they’ve all tried to become, or have adopted technology and tried to morph into a technical play. One would argue not always, usually successfully. I think because of my background being primarily tech, it’s an easier move for us. I think the fusion of providing services for organizations and some software to help them solve their problems is our future direction.

 
 

[00:20:56] And it’s definitely the one that we’re embracing right now. We’ve been using this period of time to build and test out and try some things. And I’m quite excited with some of the things that come in. So yeah, really interested to see where that’s going to take us on the journey. And then I’ve got a little passion project.

 
 

[00:21:12] How long do we have John? Got three more minutes?

 
 

[00:21:14] John Sumser: We’ve got a few more minutes.

 
 

[00:21:17] Kelly Robinson: Okay, cool. So I’ve huddled up with a former colleague and somebody, you know, very well in Rayanne Thorn. And we are putting together or launching a company called The 50 Project. And we’re really out there, we’ve set a goal to educate employers to embrace what we call the ME generation.

 
 

[00:21:35] Okay and it’s the phrase , it stands for Modern Elder, and it’s a phrase that we kind of read on one of Tim’s Sackets blogs, so I’m not taking credit for it, but we shortened it and we called it the M E or the ME generation. And we want companies to provide opportunities for interesting and valuable work for people in that sort of 45 to 65 age range.

 
 

[00:21:54] Because if you go online and you Google, you start to read the experience of most people in that age range, trying to find work. It’s actually really sad. And it’s the one area that seems to be being ignored by so many organizations. You know, there’s so much bias out there. You know, somebody who’s 45 or 50 is applying for a job, open a company and their hair is things like, you know, why would this possible work for me when I’m younger than them?

 
 

[00:22:17] You know, the person that’s more experienced than I do. They wouldn’t want to do it my way. She’s been doing this job for 20 years, we can’t employ or we’re still, or they don’t have a four year college degree. I mean, this is the person that’s been in the workforce for 25 years and they’ve got a four year college degree.

 
 

[00:22:32] So we’re starting a charter. It was started very small. We’re asking companies to sign up the batch Astra and help us engage and employ people in that Emmy range, bring wallboard and elders back into the business and reduce the time it takes to find a job, which is at the moment for somebody over the age of 50, they can expect to be unemployed for eight to nine months.

 
 

[00:22:51] Statistically, we won’t please to bring that down. We want people to give them a fair shout and to open the doors and, and embrace that experience and expertise.

 
 

[00:22:59] John Sumser: What an awesome project. So where are you with that? That’s a great thing. Are people signing up?

 
 

[00:23:04]Kelly Robinson: We’re just starting to, I guess, rattle that cage. Right?

 
 

[00:23:07] I mean, what struck me is, if you look at the stats in the next few years, 35% of the workforce in North America is going to be over the age of 50. Right, 8% of them. That’s 13 million workers are going to be 65 or older. And yet companies, they’re not giving them a fair shout. And you know, there are some companies that embrace it, but not everybody wants to drive an Uber.

 
 

[00:23:24] Not everybody wants to work in a DIY store. You know I was talking to a guy that was a former CMO of a famous jeans brand come up with some amazing campaigns and cannot get a creative job, is working on the help desk. Now, nothing wrong with working on help desk. But you know, 30 years of experience you don’t suddenly switch off yet, they’re not given the option and we want to make a change for that.

 
 

[00:23:44] So, the charter is going to go live. I can send you a link, perhaps you can promote it. And we are going to ask people, companies to sign up, we’ll put their logo, just to say that they’re willing to consider, and they’re not gonna refuse somebody an interview because they didn’t get a four year degree in 1984, 30 years ago.

 
 

[00:23:59] John Sumser: Wow. What a great idea. I’m happy to help you. I’m absolutely happy to help you with that. What else have you got in your bag of tricks? What are some of the things that you’re thinking about doing that you haven’t done yet?

 
 

[00:24:09] Kelly Robinson: Thinking about doing? Well that’s where I need the acceleration of money. I think I’m probably tapped out in terms of the amount of things I can spend my time on right now, you know, the agency and our clients take a bunch of our time. We’ve got two software projects that are run in congruence together.

 
 

[00:24:23] So, one of them is part of the agency it’s called essentially Check My Jobs. What we do is we analyze everybody’s jobs. We look at the spelling and we look at the grammar. We look at gender bias. We look at where they’ve been syndicated to and we provide that data back to the client automatically. It’s quite surprising. Companies actually don’t realize the way they’re portrayed and actually where their jobs are.

 
 

[00:24:43] So we’re starting to try it that and provide that report. And then we have a campaign management tool which allows companies that want to manage their jobs and create their campaigns in a simple, effective way to essentially drag and drop and create their campaigns really easily. So there are two pieces of product or technical asset that are going to live in the next, I’ll say weeks, but certainly the next couple of months. And I think for the time being that’s probably, I mean, you’ve known me long enough. I love new ideas and I love working on new projects, but I think I’ll probably need to focus on some of these now.

 
 

[00:25:11] John Sumser: Cool. It sounds like a great place to be and a good foundation for something bigger.

 
 

[00:25:16] Do me a favor and get ready to demo those things for me. I’d love to see them.

 
 

[00:25:21] Kelly Robinson: Yeah, no problems at all. Just let me know when you’re free.

 
 

[00:25:23] John Sumser: Okay. So any last thoughts before we wander off into the night?

 
 

[00:25:29] Kelly Robinson: I think, you know, we were talking about COVID. I think some interesting things are going to come out of this. You know, the nature of work may change. I believe that culturally, so I grew up in an era and I’m sure you did John, where if you were sick, it was like, get your suit on and get to work and, you know, stop being lazy. And I think finally, culturally it’s finally acceptable that if you’re not feeling well or you’re sick, just don’t go in the office. It’s like a complete 180 turn on that overnight. There’s no more like, get your suit on, do your tie up and just get on with it. We don’t want to hear you sick. Work your way through it. Now it’s like stand away 10 feet and don’t come back into work. So, I think, you know, there’s some good things here. I think the whole remote aspect, it’s gonna make a huge difference.

 
 

[00:26:06] Isn’t it lovely? We can live anywhere we like, and that hiring is about finding the best person, the best match, not the best person or the best match within this 20 mile geographical region because you can’t drive any further than that. So, I think those changes are forcing some of those businesses that were stuck in old fashioned processes to change overnight.

 
 

[00:26:24] You know, there’s some good things that are gonna happen and come out of the back of that I am sure.

 
 

[00:26:27] John Sumser: I agree. I think this is a remarkable time to be alive. I’ve never seen this quality and intensity of change concentrated into this short a period of time. I’m excited to be alive right now.

 
 

[00:26:40] So, thanks for taking the time to bring me up to date on where you are. And I really appreciate it.

 
 

[00:26:46] You’ve been listening to HR Examiner’s Executive Conversations, and we’ve been talking to serial entrepreneur Kelly Robinson who is running the RedDot Agency and a company called Pager. Thanks for tuning in. Thanks for doing this Kelly. And we will see you back here next week.

 
 

[00:27:07] Bye bye now.



 
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