Download the PowerPoint Presentation Here


About this Video


In this video, John Sumser discusses How Human Resources and HR Tech Can Address Workplace Health and Safety during the Coronavirus Pandemic with the workplace under threat from COVID-19.


I’d love to hear your thoughts about the discussion we had in the interview. Post your comments on or my YouTube Channel »




Important: Our transcripts at HRExaminer are AI-powered (and fairly accurate) but there are still instances where the robots get confused (or extremely confused) and make errors. Please expect some inaccuracies as you read through the text of this conversation and let us know if you find something wrong and we’ll get it fixed right away. Thank you for your understanding.



JS – John Sumser, Principal Analyst, HRExaminer


John Sumser: [00:00:00] This is the best photography we have to date of the coronavirus molecule.


[00:00:23] Before we get started, I’d like to make a real difference between the moments that you’re with me. And the rest of your day. So throughout this presentation, we’re going to stop at the right breaking points and take a deep breath, sit a little bit, and then move on with the material. This sort of relaxation management is part of what the presentation is about and part of what you need to figure out when you’re addressing the new world of work.


[00:00:57] So take a deep breath.


[00:01:13] The first time I saw this done was in a series of presentations at Phenom People. Who’s a company I’m going to talk about in this process. Today, I’m here to talk to you about how HR and technology can address workplace health and safety. Even if you don’t know what all the answers are. Nora Bateson is the daughter of Gregory Bateson and Margaret Mead, two pioneers in systems thinking.


[00:01:40] And she’s kept up the family business in talking about what’s going on in the world today. She says, this is how change really actually happens in systems. Many contexts simultaneously shifting in increasing rapid response to other changes, logic and the structures of old patterns are dissolving and response to response, to response within personal societal and ecological complex systems all at once.


[00:02:12] That’s the world. We’re in the first thing that I want to talk to you a little bit about is sustained traumatic stress. This quote is from the veterans administration talking about stress during war time. Some typical civilian stressors include threat to life being confined to one’s home, losing a loved one or family member suffering from financial hardships and having restricted access to resource such as food, water, and other supplies.


[00:02:47] As it is with everything in this presentation, the references are available in the slide deck, and you’ll be able to download that. But let me ask you, does this sound familiar to you? This sustained traumatic stress description? I’m going to argue that not only aren’t we in the new normal, but that there’s nothing new and there’s nothing normal about it.


[00:03:10] One of the things I want to be sure to tell you is that I’m not trying to persuade you of something. I don’t really have a secret recipe to sell. I do want to make you think. And I want to try to make you think outside of the assumptions that are the standard right now, this chart is from the field manual for mental health and human service workers in major disasters.


[00:03:39] And it’s what happens over the course of a disaster. And so many of the disasters that this manual is for are plane crashes or hurricanes or tornadoes or earthquakes. They’re the kind of thing that happened. And then things start to come back to normal. In our case, the trauma and the disaster has been happening and happening and happening and happening.


[00:04:06] There are people in this audience who haven’t left their homes since the 11th of March. And so. What happens in the psychology of response to disaster is there is a period of heroic response where everybody is energized by the disaster and go work harder, trying to get things done, to make the disaster, adjust, to get the people and the things back in place after the disaster.


[00:04:39] And that phase right after the disastrous called the heroic period. Right now, we have been running for seven months in a heroic period with every day, bringing a new kind and flavor of disaster to us, more uncertainty, more news. And so to nobody’s surprise engagement, scores, and engagement. Testing and engagement measurement has all gone up into the right for the entire time of the problem so far.


[00:05:13] And that’s led many of our leaders to make the assumption that engagement is up because remote working is a better way of doing things or these circumstances are somehow great. Truth is that’s a honeymoon period, and we’re about to hit a wall of disillusionment. You can see and feel the burnout everywhere you go.


[00:05:35] And that time of disillusionment will be long. And after disillusion, when is it a return to anything it’s working through the grief of everything that has been lost and we’ve lost a lot. This is one of my favorite. Memes. It’s the woman who is texting in the sports card, just as the truck with the porta-potties is about to go under a bridge.


[00:06:01] That’s too short. You can see that disaster coming. Our way engagement scores are up, but suicides are up 30%. The predictable crash is coming, even though there’s revenue and margin success added depressant scales have doubled or tripled. We’ve lost all sense of proper boundaries between life and work.


[00:06:29] And maybe that’s something that we’re going to give up, but it’s gone and we need to figure out what to do with it. And I want to tell you that where we are now is neither new, nor normal, nor sustainable. It’s a heroic response to sustained trauma. You can count on new disabilities and safety issues. As I was getting ready to record this session, I just read about COVID fog, which is in long-term COVID survivors.


[00:07:01] The problem with being able to clear your brain, we’re going to see because of the way that work is being siloed right now, repetitive mental stress disorders. 60%. 60% of COVID survivors have heart issues. There’s heavy lung compromise and many COVID has that impact on judgment that I was talking about with the brain fog, increased antidepressant consumption, alcohol and drugs complex sustained trauma, syndromes, risk aversion.


[00:07:32] These are all coming to the workplace and HR is going to figure out how to handle them and not all of them are going to be something that you can turn over to somebody else. This is going to be the nature of our workplace. Lots more difficulty with things that look like mental illness in order to navigate the future of our workplaces.


[00:07:56] We’re going to have to learn how to talk about mental illness. Our people are depressed or people are having massive doses of anxiety. They are having lethargy. They are having a hard time thinking. There are all of these signs of stress-related stress, aggravated mental illness, and we have to be able to talk about them without making fun of the people who have them, because what’s happened is our vulnerabilities have been exposed to the sustained trauma.


[00:08:29] And we’re showing the signs of it everywhere you look, you see people showing the signs of it. I want to tell you a little bit about some work that they’re doing at humanized, a company. I know pretty well before March 11th, in an average company, as average employee had 2.9 close relationships. That’s people, they spent an hour or more a week with 2.9 of them and 42nd order relationships, which is people that they spent 15 minutes or less a month with, since everybody changed the way that they work, people are up to seven close relationships and down to 15 second order relationships long-term consequences are unclear.


[00:09:19] But if you look at this Armadillo, when the Armadillo is threatened, it tucks into itself and reduces its exposure to the outside world. And that’s exactly what you see happening with the changes in the way the network functions. I want you to think about what happens when the edges of the network don’t work.


[00:09:40] There’s an argument here that says all work happens at the edges of the organization and the people who are at the heart of it. Just think that they’re at the heart of it. It’s really mostly done by people who have 15 and 20 minute relationships with you. So what that means is. We’re in a time where none of the old rules make sense.


[00:10:05] And the quickest, fastest way to get into trouble is to act as if what we’re going to do is re-institute the old world. The way that we’re working is different. Every single job description in the world is wrong because we don’t work like that anymore. And so it’s up to us to figure out how to navigate it.


[00:10:29] But now we’re faced with things that it used to be only are leaders faced, and that is lots and lots of ambiguity and uncertainty, no clear answers, an abundance of ambiguity, uncertainty. That’s what we’re driving into right now. We’ll talk to you a little bit more about certainty. I’m sure that most of you have heard of the Dunning Kruger effect.


[00:10:56] The drowning Kruger effect is a way of describing what confidence means over the course of working in a field. So this graph shows you that when you’re very early to something, it is easy to have Supreme confidence. And there’s a period early on in the careers of people in any field where they have a very assertive view of how much they know and understand about the work that what happens over time is one becomes increasingly aware of how little one knows until at the peak of expertise.


[00:11:40] You don’t have the confidence of a new person. You have kind of a jaded eye about what might be right and what might be wrong. And so I want to tell you that when you hear people who are very certain, that they know how things are going and they know what you should do, be aware because certainty is that early stage.


[00:12:05] Overconfidence that comes from not knowing what you’re talking about. This is what it means when you say, well, I may not be a brain surgeon, but I spent last night at the holiday Inn express.
[00:12:21] So that’s, that’s the stage now let’s take another breath.


[00:12:28] Breathe in.


[00:12:34] Breathe out,


[00:12:42] breathe in,


[00:12:50] breathe out.


[00:12:56] Okay. You ready? I want to tell you the story about what happened to safety departments. When farmers came from the fields to work in factories, essentially every factory had a medical department, because if you went to work in a factory, you could cut off a finger or poke out your eye or lose a foot or get killed.


[00:13:18] And so there needed to be some sort of medical attention in the heart of every factory as we. Turned the factory idea into offices. And it’s worth noting here that the basic theory of an office is that it’s a kind of factory and the basic theory of workflow, the idea that a workflow is how you get things done is exactly applying factory principles to work.


[00:13:47] But what happened is the work got more intellectual and more about moving information and giving information. And so there wasn’t any real need for a safety office and the company nurse and the company doctor went the way of the Dodo. And now there are very few places that have safety offices, but what happens with the pandemic?


[00:14:10] Because there’s so little that we know is the pandemic restores it to the primary HR function. And so what I’m going to tell you now is about how HR has priorities could, should, might reorient themselves. So that safety is the first thing health, which is what you can do. If you’re safe, you can get healthy.


[00:14:37] Is the second thing and development, which is many of the things that we talk about in talent management, performance management, talent acquisition is something that you do once safety’s in place and once held place. So the priorities of the HR department in my view will turn out to be safety. First health, second development.


[00:15:00] Third, I’m going to use the acronym S H D to describe. Safety health and development as we walked through the process, it isn’t just, are you going to cut your arm off safety? Is, is it emotionally saved? Are you subject to discrimination or harassment? Is it mentally safe? Are you being asked to do things that are beyond you?


[00:15:26] Is it in line with the values of the company. If the operation isn’t in line with the values of the company, the operation is unsafe, it’s unhealthy are the finances, right. Or the individual finances. Right. And is the organizational finances, right? What’s the impact on the environment of the overall enterprise and what is my experience of the work environment?


[00:15:52] Then there’s the stuff that has been traditionally talked about in learning and development, which are the occupational safety, health, and development things and occupational growth. And then you cap this off with the social functions that happen inside of healthy organizations. If you think back to the humanized data, the social function is starting to look unhealthy in a lot of organizations.


[00:16:18] So safety, health and development have goals that build on each other. In safety. What you’re trying to do is reduced the risk of damage. You want to make sure that there’s no physical danger that harassment discrimination, exclusion, and bias are minimized and that any unnecessary stress. Is moved away from the business.


[00:16:44] You’ll want to think about these breathing moments in this presentation as a way of removing unnecessary stress for something, and think that that’s the job of keeping a safe organization. Health builds OD safety and gives a sense of control in the work environment. There’s lots of reciprocation and relationships in the work environment.


[00:17:07] In a healthy organization with healthy people in it, merit is a primary values so that people are moved around because they have earned or deserve it. Inclusion is how you make the teams strong, shared values are something that we work on together. Relaxation. You might think that relaxation is a funny thing to talk about at work, but it turns out like bill Murray says.


[00:17:33] Everything’s better when you’re relaxed. And so what we want inside of our healthy organizations is commitment to goals, but relaxation in their execution. Nothing’s better if it’s done in a hurry under pressure. And finally health means being competent in what you do. Once you’ve got safety and health in place, you could go on to develop and to improve individual autonomy.


[00:18:02] The coherence of the work team, the feeling of fulfillment at work at the experience of the fulfillment of achievements and goals, a improving world has better and better equity inside of it. There’s a sense of community and belonging. There’s a sense of equanimity, which is sort of relaxation on steroids.


[00:18:28] Professional growth is possible. And part of the arrangement and out of development comes organizational agility


[00:18:38] organization is a lot of things. And in a different conversation, I’d want to talk to you about whether or not the organization is conscious, how to understand the voice of the organization and how. All of these different people with all of their different connections, somehow constituted organization.


[00:19:00] So the elements of organizational safety, health, and development or exploration, we need to be constantly exploring for new ideas. That’s being compromised with the rigid zoom meeting format we use today. Collaboration is essential in a healthy organization. Again, compromised by rigidity and the zoom format.


[00:19:24] Adaptability means having enough of a sense of what’s going on in the market so that you can respond when it’s time to respond to it again, compromised by the zoom rigid hour long meeting format. We want to see a lineman between the things that our people were doing and the goals of the company, the tech infrastructure needs to be adequate for there to be a healthy organization.


[00:19:52] And you have to have decent tooling so that people have the capital equipment. They need to do their jobs network function. As I have been sort of weaving in along here is critical the organizational health, and we don’t know yet what. An optimal network looks like, or if there are different kinds of optimal networks for different kinds of organizations, but we’re studying it and learning about it, then that should be part of HR connection between people diversity, as a characteristic of the organization, belonging this as a characteristic of the organization and market fitness.


[00:20:35] And this is not to mention some of the other pieces of. Uh, organizational health that include financial functioning for one. So what is organizational health? I’m gonna cut this to the quick and say, there are a couple of elements here that are just critical freedom from operational degradation. Means not getting by the best you can give it the limited constraints, but actually having an effective, ongoing, moving operation, continuous improvement, the ease of integration with new employees, appropriate margins and growth, a level of trust in the organization that grows.


[00:21:25] I’ve seen this. I bet you’ve seen the two where. In the right setting, you can have a very long stretch of trust that grows and grows and grows to then something happens. A market shift, the change of leadership, a merger and acquisition, all sorts of things exist to crush trust, and that’s where organizational health starts to deteriorate.


[00:21:51] There are adequate resources to get what you want. Employee safety, health and development is a priority. Most importantly, there’s an effect of people that have liver function and the effect of people, analytics function allows you to monitor and control what’s going on inside of the organization. A good people, analytics function continues to ask questions and what you should be seeing by now.


[00:22:17] Is that I’m advocating, asking questions all the time. I believe the organization has a single voice and that employees want to talk to that single voice. Currently, you can’t do that because the policies and procedures of the organization are buried away in conflicting revision levels in SharePoint, archives, all over the organization.


[00:22:45] And so we’ve lost control of our ability to give a single clear message about what the organization wants. There are tools. And I’ll talk about some of them later in the presentation that allow the organization to reclaim its voice and reclaim control of its work. The risks in safety, health, and development are, if you don’t do it well, people aren’t going to trust you.


[00:23:16] Pandemic related burnout. My opinion for what it’s worth is that we are reaching epidemic state in burnout, and that the honeymoon period is about to be over. And we’re going to see a real crash in productivity and our employee’s ability to get things done, unless there are some significant moves to make things easier for them.


[00:23:44] It’s easy to mistake, accomplishment for being okay. And that’s happening as we focus more and more and more on hitting KPIs and less and less and less on making sure that people have the time and the ability to experience serendipity of their work. So that the kinds of things that happen when people bump into each other in the halls happen.


[00:24:09] The mental health issues are big. We’re going to see a lot more mental health, and we’re going to need to be able to talk about it. Plainly mental health and mental illness, or just like physical health and physical illness. We’re going to notice the consequences of flawed information governance. And that gets back to how do you get to the voice of the company?


[00:24:29] Much of our work today is as if we took the office and moved it into people’s houses. And you know that isn’t gonna work. That’s not how these sorts of changes happen. The office was just an expression of factory ideas and there’s a real problem coming now because the meaning of the analytics you get is changing.


[00:24:51] And so seeing high engagement scores, following the pandemics start. Many executives have relaxed thinking about engagement as an issue. And they’re going to be terribly surprised when the bottom drops out of the encasement scores. That’s misunderstanding analytics. Now there’s all sorts of new stuff out there, and I’m going to be very Zippy.


[00:25:21] Pathfinder will get you a beep wearable that enforces social distancing. So if you come within six feet or somebody else in the office and beeps at you, Vodafone has a heat sensing camera that you put on the entrances. So you can tell without there having to be a temperature taker, their who’s hot and who’s cold coming into work today.


[00:25:43] Google and Apple have built very interesting contract tracing systems. M two systems has right punch the touchless time clock. It’s a bit of facial recognition. ID shop has proximity, badges, and wristbands so that you don’t ever have to touch a security device. Service now makes the interesting case that their reservation system is something that you could use for conference rooms.


[00:26:12] Hot swapping of desks and bathroom usage, which brings me to sabbatical bathroom cleaning robot, which is this thing on the side. If you have a moment and want to be astonished, go to sabbatical website and watch the videos of their bathroom cleaning robot. The reason this is important is of all of the places at the office.


[00:26:34] It’s taboo to talk about what goes on in the bathroom. Isn’t it. Problem is if you want to find a great place to exchange bodily fluids and aerosol droplets, it’s the bathroom. It’s hard to clean. I haven’t seen a bathroom in a million years that had room for more than two people to use it. And so we’re going to be talking about bathroom usage and what do you do?


[00:27:03] And who’s responsible for cleaning it. And who would you give that job to a different, so somatic has this bath, so cleaning robot, and they do an interesting thing. You can’t buy one, but you could hire one for a thousand dollars a month. Finally, there’s an occupancy sensor. So if you’re working on the bathroom, problem, Levitin has a sensor that will tell you when somebody is in there.


[00:27:26] So you don’t walk in by mistake. So I don’t want you to think of giving the rest of HR short shrift, much of the rest of HR. Fit right into this framework. Payroll and benefits are the cornerstones of safety as is. HR is constant and noble attention to the wellbeing of employees. Recruiting just works better when the organization is healthy, you can attract people more easily with a healthy organization.


[00:27:55] Talent management is a part of development. And that means performance management, succession planning. All of those things that are in the talent man has been bucket are more easily done when safety and health are the first orders of business. Finally learning is a part of the whole thing. Safety, health, and development require learning, and it can be imagined as the backbone of the HR organization.


[00:28:23] So the priorities rearranged, but the component parts are very similar. What’s missing from all of the products I’ve seen and I’ve been looking at them all year is there are no tools out there that can help you forecast. So you get the office rearranged to get people back in the office. How do you know when the confluence of events is suggesting them?


[00:28:45] It’s time to do something or reclose the office nobody’s offering that there’s no real time risk identification at a system level. So. Software has always been great for containing data and allow you to manipulate data. But there are no clear stories about what are the stepping stones to a problem.


[00:29:07] When you have an office running the new way that we’re going to be running offices, there’s no clear linkage between individual safety, health, and development. And organizational safety, health, and development. We really don’t even know so much what organizational safety, organizational health and organizational development mean.


[00:29:29] We need better frameworks for thinking about sentiment because the meaning of sentiment is depending on the context. And that’s as simple as this engagement story that I’ve been telling them. If you are getting high engagement scores, you need to understand what it means. And it doesn’t mean what it did a year ago, and we need broadly a better understanding of the consequences of sustained trauma.


[00:29:56] Our workforces are going to be full of people who have endured craziness for long periods of time. And it’s going to show up in their work and their behavior work, and we need to be prepared for that. We need to be prepared to talk about it without taboo. Every year I put together a watch list and this year’s no different.


[00:30:22] So these are the people who are doing amazing stuff. I’m going to go through it briefly. You might watch the HR examiner over the next several weeks to see the details about each of these people, but Workday and service Dow have both built wonderful libraries of returned to work tools. Workday has perfected a workflow and process systems so that you can run everything from one set of dashboards.


[00:30:52] Service now has a bunch of really great tools that do a bunch of things. ADP is on the list because they have not only built a statement of ethics like ultimate software did several years ago, but they’ve installed an ethics board, um, was spend the end of the presentation talking about ethics boards in general, but it’s notable that ADP is the first company to go public in our space with an AI ethics board.


[00:31:21] Socrates AI does the information governance that’s necessary to allow an organization’s voice to get clear. Humanized. I talked to you about them throughout this presentation. They have an organizational health score that has to do with network health and the actual health of the actual organization.


[00:31:43] This year has been doing a phenomenal job all year of getting people to understand what’s going on with COVID inside of their workplaces and learning how to staff analytics functions in a variety of settings for non people is the broadest spectrum intelligent tool in recruiting that I know of everything that they do.


[00:32:10] At phenomenon, people has components of NLP and machine learning built into it, everything from the ground up now on the other end of that spectrum is greenhouse who has focused on making good decisions rather than gee whiz technology. They’re not at all convinced at greenhouse. That AI is anything but trouble.


[00:32:34] And so their work in all of the areas that are interesting is focused on helping people make good decisions, hiring solved CS. The primary problem in HR as search and they’re working to make better search through integrated systems. Workforce logic has just published amazing diversity, BAPS and forecasting tools.


[00:33:00] Organization view, which is a Swiss company has put out generic code that allows you to not have a data scientist on your team. If you want to analyze the sentiment in text responses, culture amp, my ideas about the way that engagement scores are changing. Largely come from conversations I’ve had with culture amp.


[00:33:25] And arena IO is using AI to move people from one industry to another industry in the volume hiring arena.


[00:33:39] Oh, Hey, that was brisk. Let’s take a deep breath.


[00:34:01] It’s easy to be confused about what ethics is for me. Ethics is a conversation. Morality tells you what’s right and wrong. The law tells you what you can and can’t do. What’s legal and what’s illegal. Ethics is a conversation about what’s the right thing to do here right now. Or. What could possibly go wrong?


[00:34:23] That’s a big one. Will this hurt anybody? Can we improve things and where our biases and there are many other questions to ask. Ethics is a way of handling the ambiguity and uncertainty that surrounds us. By saying, we’re going to make a choice now in a process that we can go back to when we see things a little bit differently.


[00:34:53] So ethics is the conversation, because there’s so much that we don’t know in this era where we’ve got intelligent tools, we’ve got an LP, we’ve got machine learning, we’ve got all the technology in the world, but we don’t know what the problem is that we’re solving yet in that era of those tools. Ethics is the foundation of safety and health.


[00:35:15] When you bring people back into the workplace, you’ll have to make ethical decisions about the risk of coming back to the workplace. You can’t guarantee that there won’t be any risk there, and you have to make ethical decisions about how much detail you’re going to inform employees with about the risk of coming back and the risk of staying there.


[00:35:37] You’re going to have to make ethical decisions about. Whether or not, it’s okay to check on somebody’s mental health. When they’re working from home, where is the line between home and business really? And on and on and on. And so you need a mechanism to do this. The, the decisions that we’re making right now are all ethical.


[00:36:04] What I’ve been trying to tell you in this presentation is. We’re in new circumstances. This is, nobody’s seen this before. And any sense that you have that there’s something familiar about it is probably wrong. And that means every single decision we make we’re making for the first time. And what do you know about making decisions for the first time?


[00:36:30] The error rate is pretty high. That means taking more time to understand the problem before we make decisions and evaluating that with a group of people is absolutely necessary. And that’s what I mean by ethics is having a governance process or an advisory process that feeds decisions through a panel of people with different perspectives to make sure that we’re in alignment about what we’re doing, because whether or not you like it.


[00:37:01] All decisions have unintended consequences. And what we want to do is reduce the number and severity of the unintended consequences. So the thing I’d like you to think about in this presentation is it it’s likely to be the case that all HR departments and their vendors need an operational ethics function, because it creates accountability for things that could get swept under the rug.


[00:37:29] We know that diversity makes decision-making better. And since we can’t get all of our teams completely diverse, quickly enough, and ethics committee can perform some of that function. And ethics committee will ensure awareness of bias. And, you know, there was a time when people ran around saying that they could eliminate bias, but the truth is bias happens in organizations, through people and.


[00:37:57] We have to learn how to see it. We really have to learn how to see it and name it and AI ethics function, experience effectiveness, and improves our ability to plan. You may get answers. You don’t want to hear. It’s probably likely that you’re going to get answers that you don’t want to hear. We are, but planning’s better if it has more information.


[00:38:23] With an ethics function, looking at your designs and project plans and values. You can minimize unintended consequences while improving safety and health in the organization and ethics function. Assuming that you have external players involved in your ethics question, insulates against the mind. Meld that happens inside of organizations.


[00:38:47] I think a conversation built on questions about is this the right thing? Is this the wrong thing? And so, um, is the absolute heart of a continuously learning organization. And if we’ve seen anything, what we’ve seen is that our organizations need to rapidly learn and move in order to figure out how to reach the next chore.


[00:39:12] The other thing about having an AI ethics committee is it’s a great way for management to model the handling of uncertainty and ambiguity. Every employee has a greater level of uncertainty and ambiguity in their lives, in their job jobs, in their social world, in their churches. And there aren’t really good rules, role models for being comfortable with uncertainty and relaxed inside of uncertainty.


[00:39:40] A good AI ethics function in your organization can help model that behavior. So why is safety and ethics question? Anyhow? Well, the boundary between the office of the home is unclear. And so we’re going to be talking about mental health and other forms of safety in the home office. Safety is an ethics question because it’s always the case that you balance individual safety and organizational risk.


[00:40:09] Every day. We’re going to see an ethics question. As we rely on our employees to tell us about their symptoms and try to figure out what to do with the fact that you can still be a spreader of COVID. Even if your symptoms aren’t showing up, you always have to balance business continuity and physical safety.


[00:40:29] And the question is, how do you draw that line and how do you let people know about that line? The other thing about all of this new data, you know, I, I didn’t say this explicitly, but all of these new devices that help us see and understand the relationships with people in the office of the 21st century create data collection, which potentially creates personally identifiable information.


[00:40:57] And a good ethics function, forces you to repeatedly ask the what could go wrong here at question it’s essential. So that means, I think ethics is the new way of deciding. It’s a way of deciding to gets less permanent answers unless a very permanent answer is really deserved. We want to keep things evolving because.


[00:41:22] We’re learning and we still don’t know a lot about what’s going on. So how do you do this? And ethics board is composed of the key decision-making stakeholders in your organization. Some external representatives, preferably from a kinds of people who will be most effected by bad decisions. You do monthly meetings, you make it so that employees can weigh in.


[00:41:50] You build it as a resource, not as governance. So, so an ethics board should be able to recommend, but should never be able to dictate. And the first thing that you do is define what all the terms of the ethics world mean in your setting. I’m going to wrap this up with a reminder for my good friend, ally and Stein.


[00:42:14] He said, If I had an hour to solve a problem, I’d spend 55 minutes thinking about the problem. And five minutes thinking about solutions Einstein’s view was that you should continuously view your solutions. If there’s one thing that you can do in this environment to ensure the most ethical output your work is to practicing.


[00:42:38] I don’t know. It’s okay. Vastly underused word, but if you think of back to the Dunning-Kruger. Graph that I showed you, the Mark of an expert is that they don’t know. They’re very, very aware of how much they don’t know. So thanks for listening over the course of this conversation, we’ve talked about some of the realities of the current situation we’re in and some things you may not be seeing like sustained stress in the workforce and what that means for the future.


[00:43:10] Then we took a long tour of safety, health, and development, and the interesting things that are being done there, how those need to become the priorities of HR. Today, we took a little bit of a breather because really you should put breathers into your work, um, and started talking about ethics is the foundation of all of this and how to build an ethics board inside of your company.


[00:43:38] So, thanks again for your time. I really appreciate it. I’m going to be here for questions. Let me know what you think. Bye. Bye.


Watch more of John’s talks on his YouTube Channel »

Tagged with:  
Read previous post:
HRExaminer Radio Executive Conversations Badge Podcast Logo
HRExaminer Radio – Executive Conversations: Episode #383: Mike Gioja SVP of IT and Product Development, Paychex

In this week's episode, John Sumser talks with Mike Gioja who is the SVP of IT & Product Development at...